Maybe instead of wasting time with laws and enforcements of them, these folks should look into halting the occasional high rise condominium, swank SRQ eatery or golf course and start putting the homeless into affordable or temporarily free housing. And also put a little effort into prioritizing job placements, making those that are steadily evaporating come back, in lieu of the city's generous paychecks. There's plenty that could be done to help folks in need if the time and concerns were given out as often as their fears and judgments.

How about the bums get a job and get off the streets of Sarasota?

Hey J. Baines,

Why don't you go downtown and give a bum a job! That should be the new slogan - Give a Bum a Job!

I agree....get them a job.....maybe if Susan had not voted last night to GIVE Benderson a 1.5 million dollar discount....we could have used that money to give them a job sweeping the streets....if they didn't want the job....get rid of them!

I get uncomfortable any time I see her on the street. She could not fix the parking situation downtown just water it down with money for a while. She removed benches and made downtown that much less enjoyable to visitors. I have never been threatened or yelled at aggressively. What would it take to get some good news of success and not regret and mistakes?

This is why we need a strong Mayor - to help get the Bums a Job!

Personally, I feel the Mayor is absolutely right. what is wrong is putting these people in the same category with people who have lost their homes due to layoffs and the recession is simply wrong. The people in the Selby Library area she refers to would be there in ANY times. They are NOT willing to work, to get clean and sober or to contribute to society in a positive way. Those options are here in Sarasota. Donate to the Salvation Army and suggest they go there to turn their lives around. See what happens.......
Thankfully there ARE those that take advantages of positive actions and I commend them. Those who do not can move on as far as I'm concerned. I will not be part of enabling their destructive and offensive lifestyle.

They like being obnoxious and threatning. They don't want help or work. They are turning Boca Raton west into a 's__t-hole' and love it! If you don't address getting rid of this then you will be another St. Pete, Detroit, Baltimore, Miami, Atlanta, etc., etc., you get the idea. The 'grunts' are good for nothing, unless you can think of something...Hmm.

I do contribute to the Salvation Army Joel. And after being asked for money by obviously inebriated vagrants I have suggested they get help there. But pesky rules like staying sober and following positive direction keeps most of them from doing so.
Now I want to point out that by NO means did I mean to type that by going downtown, where I happen to live, and/or supporting local businesses is enabling their lifestyles. But allowing their behavior, giving them dollars to waste after working for them yourself IS. It is NOT OK to turn that beautiful park into a place people now want to avoid. Ask the churches, ask ex-addicts, ask people who genuinely want to help if allowing this behavior is a positive thing. It isn't.

Well, Suzanne I'm glad it is finally happening to you. I was a business owner downtown for several years about 8 years ago when the Salvation Army was located on 4th Street. I went to all the meetings when they were going to build the Homeless Condo on 10th Street. I tried to voice my opinion then but no one would listen. YOU CAN'T BUILD A HUGE BEAUTIFUL COMPLEX FOR THE HOMELESS AND EXPECT TO BUILD A BEAUTIFUL THRIVING DOWNTOWN AND NOT HAVE PROBLEMS. Forget trying to give them free housing and jobs, Yes some of them need that but most of them CHOOSE TO BE HOMELESS. And even if they had a job they would only work long enough to buy alcohol and drugs. Suzanne you are a cllinical psychologist, so you should know most of them need psychiatric help and even then sometimes this lifestyle has taken to much of a toll on them... I WOULD SIT IN MY STORE FRONT AT NIGHT AND THEY WOULD COME STRAIGHT TO MY WINDOW AND PEE IN MY FLOWERS RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME. THEN ONE NIGHT A BUNCH OF THEM CAME AND RIPPED ALL OF MY FLOWER BEDS OUT AND THREW MY PLANTS ACROSS THE STREET. Do you think the police or the city did anything about it then no. I lived in West Palm Beach when I was younger and my parents had an antique store in Downtown West Palm Beach on Clematis Street. I watched the same thing happen there and when they revitalized W.P.B, they had to move the homeless shelter out of the area. THAT IS WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE HERE IF YOU EVER WANT TO CLEAN UP DOWNTOWN. You can Thank Zoning!

Personal attacks like the one from Mme. d'Estape are why is almost impossible to have intelligent discourse anymore. And that is really too bad.
We have a problem that needs to be addressed and being devisive and name calling does not halp whatsoever IMO.

But have a nice day! :)

Mr. Garvey: If you thought a moment, you'd see Mr. Swier's person was not attacked. He wishes to get rid of "the bums." The impression he gives of Sarasota is what is in question. My suggestion was offered in the spirit of public relations - I'm sure the Chamber of Commerce understands.

The MAYOR makes a PUBLIC statement that she is uncomfortable going downtown.
Well, that should draw lots & lots of Visitors now, shouldn't it?
Draw them, alright - away from Sarasota's downtown!

We can't keep sweeping everything under the rug either. I'm sure our visitors that have visited Sarasota before now come back and wonder why we have no benches in our beautiful downtown to sit on ( And we do have alot of retired people who live and come to the downtown area who cant walk far and need to sit down, LIKE MY GRANDMOTHER ) but now sit on what? And we advertise that Sarasota is a beautiful place to visit, well I'm sure they come to our downtown and wonder why we our so populated with homeless. > As to one night I was sitting at Two Senoritas with my family and a group of tourists when a homeless man came by and blew his nose with his hand onto the sidewalk. I WOULD SAY IT IS TIME TO BRING THIS PUBLIC SO WE CAN REMEDY THE PROBLEM. IT SEEMS LIKE WHEN THINGS GO PUBLIC SOMETIMES IT IS TAKEN CARE OF SOONER, THEN SWEEPING EVERYTHING UNDER THE RUG. Bring back our park benches and quit destroying our downtown with bad planning. AND ITS TO LATE TO WORRY ABOUT VISITORS FINDING OUT, BECAUSE THAT IS FALSE ADVERTISEMENT TO LURE TOURISTS HERE TO OUR DOWNTOWN AREA TELL THEM HOW BEAUTIFUL IT IS AND THEN HAVE THEM COME TO BE HARRASSED BY PANHANDLERS, AND SIT ON THE SIDEWALKS TO DINE AND HAVE THEM WALK BY AND HAVEN'T BATHED FOR DAYS, TO SMELL THAT LINGERING SMELL WHILE YOUR HAVING DINNER. Yes it is SAD, but remember alot of homeless people choose to be homeless. Like I mentioned some have severe proplems and should not even be on our streets, because it is dangerous......

Nothing is being swept under the rug. The issue is the individual, not the community. The individual must get him/herself straight. That is the only solution!

please tell ms suzanne she had better not think of ever going to NYC, dc, London, Paris, SF, Miami if she is too uncomfortable in non downtown downtown Sarasota! Pitiful!

We have laws enforce them, problem solved.

Add to the homeless the "occupiers" and you really have a health and safety risk. The occupiers are coming to Tampa to occupy the RNC. We will see if they turn violent. Read this: http://watchdogwire.com/florida/2012/08/20/evil-comes-to-florida/

I’m sure some arrests will be made, certain people love to have 15 mins of fame and don’t mind being martyrs in order to get it, other people love to use that sort to further their own longer lasting 15 mins, profiteering all the way. Ask me they should hold such political rallies from any party in the middle of a desert far far from polite society

Of course if it were a Teabagger "rally," they'd be exercising their Gawd-given Merikan Rights. Right?

@Donald Cogswell, That sounds like a a poorly constructed assumption to me... And were you in their place, homeless and poor, you're saying you too would be beyond help? Maybe some are. But the MAJORITY of people who are suffering so, don't CHOOSE to do so, they're BEATEN DOWN by years of ignorant attitudes like yours and SRQ illustrious.

@Richard M. Swier, Wow, what a slogan... Real cute. And y'know what? I sure would give some of those folks jobs, if I had any to give. Quicker than any of your illustrious council or downtown patrons ever would.

there are all sorts of programs to help the homeless

http://www.homelessshelterdirectory.org/cgi-bin/id/city.cgi?city=Sarasota&state=FL

they are either unwilling in many cases or unable to (mental illness) use them. no real excuses for them to be down town. Enforce the laws we have they will either go away or get the help they need. Don’t make excuses, don’t get on your PC high horse, just allow Law enforcement to handle it without interference

If you must rally the PC flag tell me how many you are willing to foster in your home and when we can have you host them till the please just find some other more worthy cause for your time.

Agree with Mr. Boyle. We even have an annual homeless stand down. They just do not want the help. They just want to be bums as long as we let them be bums. Find a Bum a Job!

Let he or she that is currently fostering homeless people in their home cast the first stone.

These people are not "bums." They are, in most cases, sick individuals who have fallen on hard times, and are unable to get help because, quite frankly, the help they need is not available. Some, few, are probably capable of doing something productive, but they are in a great minority. Also, in certain cases, their sickness makes them incapable of knowing or believing they need help. Their Sefl Awareness is lacking, often due to brain trauma.
But should they be downtown? No. The city seems to be doing things that make it harder for the residents & visitors, in an effort to keep the homeless away. WOn't work. Until the existing laws are enforced, and an acceptable shelter is placed somewhere that they can get to, and are WILLING to get to, it won't end.
I know several well-off people who live downtown & do not see the homeless as a problem. In fact, they give them money, or, very commonly, their Doggie Bags from the d'town restaurants. That needs to stop as well. They can get terrific meals in the shelter - maybe not a gourmet meal, but at least decent.

Individuals who want help can get it if they are willing to change. Sarasota offers that and the Salvation Army is an EXCELLENT example.
The government cannot make individuals seek help but they CAN and SHOULD enforce the law. Sometimes that even helps move some of the vagrants into asking for help and into being ready to accept responsibility for their own lives.
There are too many well meaning people who are not able to understand what enabling means and how counter productive it actually is.

My companion and I walk downtown and pass by 5 Points Park nearly every day. There are always vagrants lounging there and also in the storefronts of shops that have closed for the day. Some sell little roses made from leaves. Many, but not most, are clearly on drugs or drunk. We are frequently solicited for cash donations, usually to "get a bed at the shelter" referring to the $10 they need to sleep at the Salvation Army.
There is one tall bearded fellow who hangs out at the corner in front of Mattison's nearly all the time. He can be seen occasionally sketching. Whenever he is not there, his personal belongings remain were he was sitting, sometimes scattering in an expanding pile.
We do not walk in between the Park and the Library. There are many vagrants there and, as a group, they appear more aggressive and likely to cause trouble.

These bums are violating the law of man and the laws of nature by not taking care of themselves, in spite of billions in government spending to "help them". Those who demonize those who call for personal responsibility and want more done to help are not helping anyone - they are hurting those who want to stay bums. Stop subsidizing failure and you will be surprised that even someone who is at the lowest of the low can turn themselves around if THEY want to. Read the book FEARLESS about Adam Brown to understand what I am saying.

Richard, you say to 'read a book' to understand the solution? No Richard, I don't 'read' about life, I 'live' it. It's too blatantly obvious what the 'problem' is Richard. Keep promoting businesses that support imports - (Walmart), and you support the outsourcing of 'American' jobs. Hence, more homeless.... It's as simple as that Richard. And this my friend, you won't read in any book.

So Richard, the solution lies within yourself... instead of pointing your finger, it's this persons fault or that person,s look in the mirror Richard and ask yourself; "perhaps I am part of the problem but could be part of the solution"

I suggest you do the same. Maybe you are the problem? Have you thought about that?

May I humbly suggest that it is profit that creates jobs, not companies and certainly not government. Until a company can make a profit it will not hire people. The more profit the more jobs. Breaking even or losing money means losing jobs.

While I agree with you that manufacturing has left America, where the product is made does not impact jobs - profit does. The cheaper the cost of goods the more profit. America must regain its ability to manufacture. To do that government must get out of the way, at the least, and be pro-business at the best. My humble opinion.

Richard, I understand what you are saying, but 'who' benefits from the profits? > Answer, a couple CEO's that's all. Would you rather have two people in a store making a profit, or to keep hundreds of 'American's employed to 'make' the product? My point is, to have the products the CEO's of Walmart are selling, to be made in the USA. Sure, they may need to downscale from a Mazzerati to a BMW, but then again, can you even begin nto think how many hundreds of thousand of jobs would be had, if the products they sold were made in this Country and not overseas. Also Richard. Take a look at the ecological footprint. How is the product from China brought to the USA, by boat.. oil, gas. Make the product in each state, thus less dependency on foreign oil. I still cannot understand President Bush's quote during his bid for Presidency, when he said; "The outsourcing of American jobs to China is healthy for our Country" WTF?! The only ones who benefit from the outsourcing of American jobs are a few CEO's who take their profits, bury them in the Bahamas - (Romney).. but look at how it increases the homeless population. Sure, this isn't a cure-all, just perhaps a solution. I mean Richard, in 1960, corporations were taxed 22 cents on the dollar, In 2012, they are taxed 22 cents on every hundred dollard made. This simply does not makes sense.

Thank you Jack Littman-Quinn, for posting this. I had lunch with her a few weeks ago about the subject. As many know, I am just about everywhere on foot downtown every day/night. As a female that lives and LOVES downtown, and equally LOVES sending guests downtown (as oppose to the always busy St. Armands Circle), the homeless problem is completely out of hand. I have to say, I don't feel terribly threatened having lived outside of Detroit most of my life. It is, however, really uncomfortable, it could affect our tourism, and reflects poorly on our city. Something needs to be done.

I'm sure some have fallen on hard times, perhaps some are vets, it's very sad... no doubt about it, but this group needs to move elsewhere. The Main St/Library/5 Points area is a huge atrraction for guests and locals alike, and as far as tourists go, I hear plenty of concerns at the hotel. I have to assure them that I wouldn't send them anywhere I wouldn't feel safe going to myself. I had lunch near Central 2 weeks ago, and watched an officers do nothing while this screaming match was taking place in the park. There are a few that are known around town by name and are ignored by most. It's nice to see some selling flowers. But when there are 20+ gathering in the park and shouting across 1st to each other in what seems a drug-induced or drunken ramble, it's does not allow Sarasota to shine like some of us think she does.

Please, please, please, let's figure this out.

For Mr. Swier, "profit" seems an absolute - an end in itself, justifying its ravages, its exploitation, its destruction of the environment, its disruption of the economy when things get a little too unregulated. Profit is the sole good. Kind of like God. Mr. Swier, are these your idols? -- BP, Exxon, Enron, DuPont, Blackwater, Haliburton, and anything run by Sherman Adelson or Jaimie Diamon.

Here is the question as presented by Frederique Bastiat, "This question of legal plunder must be settled once and for all, and there are only three ways to settle it: (1) The few plunder the many. (2) Everybody plunders everybody. (3) Nobody plunders anybody." Some on this thread favor legal plunder. That is the issue!

"If you wish to prosper, let your customer prosper. When people have learned this lesson, everyone will seek his individual welfare in the general welfare. Then jealousies between man and man, city and city, province and province, nation and nation, will no longer trouble the world. "-Frédéric Bastiat

“Everyone wants to live at the expense of the State. They forget that the State lives at the expense of everyone.” -Frédéric Bastiat

"The only security men can have for their political liberty, consists in keeping their money in their own pockets" -- Lysander Spooner, 19th Century libertarian and entrepreneur who was forced out of the letter-delivery business by the U.S. government. He committed the crime of competition.

“If taxation without consent is not robbery, then any band of robbers have only to declare themselves a government, and all their robberies are legalized.” – Lysander Spooner

Had enough yet?

And if you feel like being generous, be kind and generous. But being generous with other people's money? I don't think so.
There ARE options here in Sarasota for those who want help. They ARE provided by generous people. Whether or not you shop at Walmart has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!
Donate what you can afford (Salvation Army for GREAT example) with your money, I do. But again, enabling indecent public lifestyles in the name of "concern" is a HUGE part of the problem and hardly the solution. I think most reasonable people understand that. Fortunately.

Agree with John. Go shop at Goodwill. Go to church and leave a little extra when the basket is passed around. Donate to your favorite charity, Salvation Army being a great one. Donate to the Mayor's Feed The Hungry program in Sarasota. Personal largesse is good, government largesse is legal plunder.

Don't you understand that many Sarasota residents fled here from depressed Northern cities and economies so as not to have to look at human suffering? If we're going to allow these homeless to clutter up downtown at least demand some aesthetic enhancements, perhaps by offering them meals or incentives to dress as, say, circus performers. Who doesn't like the circus, especially with its tie-ins to local history?

Dash... trying to be cute?

I wonder if the mayor ever drives over to our neighborhood, if she thinks some aggressive panhandling is bad, I suggest she drive over to Indian Beach and watch the prostitution and crack dealing that goes on out in the open for a couple hours when she decides on where she is beefing up the police presence.

Dash Riprock, you're one cruel SOB for suggesting that the homeless--most of whom are mentally ill--should dress up like circus clowns. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Hawkeye,

I served in Vietnam with the 101st Airborne Division during Tet of 1968. I saw what you described and much more. That has nothing to do with this conversation at all. The issue is the individual being responsible and acting responsibly. Being a bum is not acting responsibly. I do not care what horrible life experiences someone may have had, it is wrong to act irresponsibly.

I would very much like to see the draft come back. I see too many young people acting irresponsibly with no purpose in life. Serving one's country in our military is both needed and the right thing to do. Sadly, only 30% of all our youth would qualify under the current enlistment standards. That shows you how bad our future is.

Learning service above oneself is part of being an American. We owe this country that much. As JFK said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

*PG; I've more respect for your comment, more so, than any post in the room.
Thank you so much for the post.

Richard: In lieu of the most intilligent post to date on the homeless subject, an encore is well warranted.
"Richard - you've shown us that you are very good at Googling quotes from the 19th century that agree with your position. COngratulations. Even if some of them contradict your position, we know you can copy & paste. ("If you wish to prosper, let your customer prosper" seems to be at odds with your other statements about maximizing profit, or not having an issue with all the jobs going overseas). Also, unlike many of those of your viewpoint, Bastiat warned us to consider the LONG TERM effects of any economic decisions. WHat we see now is that those on the Right can only look from month to month, or quarter to quarter. They can only see what is right in front of them, here & now. What are the long term consequences of maximizing short term profit by shipping our jobs overseas? We're seeing it now, aren't we? You are NOT serious in thinknig that Your employer has less control over your life than a GS-1 level mailroom employee at the Bureau of Indian Affairs? Can you explain how that "lowest government bureaucrat" has more influence over Your life? So let's hear it. What is Your plan? Put all the homeless to work. How are you going to do it? Spewing slogans & treating the homeless in your condescending manner isn't going to get the job done."

Hey I thought the Tube Dude was supposed to be giving them jobs, what happened with that plan. :)

Correction: I misspoke above - the correct name of the big backer of rightwing nutjobbery is Sheldon Adelson - surely one of Mr. Swier's heroes, as we know Mr. Swier to be a big backer of israeli aggression towards Iran. More about Mr. Adelson here http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/06/25/sheldon-adelson-crazy-jewish-billionaire/

Mme. d'Estape... excellent post!

Setting aside issues of housing costs (which place many at disadvantage to lead more normal lives) and the lack of broader employment opportunities (which most everyone would agree is at the heart of existing with a more engaged concept of community connection)...

What's going on here with many (not all) SRQ downtown homeless is something distinctly different from where things have been in past decades from my experiences around the country. There's something deeply dystopian in a social sense.

Sort of generalizing here, but there are attitudes of resentment, assumptions of entitlement, and a spirit of survival among the more extroverted or aggressive of this population. Maybe others who are older or more passive or just plain beaten down by life have a little less with these patterns, but their thinking is often sourced from the same basic characterizations.

What makes housing cost so much in Sarasota County are: 1) restrictive zoning laws; 2) a County Commission and staff that are anti-growth and therefore prevent development; 3) the government (city, county, state and federal) own over 30% of all land in the county. The less land the more expensive the remaining land is. Lastly a note on public housing. The great myth is that public housing is somehow better than renting from private individuals. This has been show to be wrong at every level. Without an owner property, especially public housing, goes down hill with crime, lack of maintenance and finally the residents never taking responsibility for maintaining their home because someone else (e.g. the government) will.

according to some newspapers around the country a lack of field workers is causing some farmers to not plant more crops. These homeless people could fill that void and also have a workers quarters to stay with showers and food on the table. and money in there pockets. Happy Jack Sarasota .

Jack,

There is always work out there. The issue is some will not take advantage of it. So long as we subsidize them to the point that working is less attractive than not working we will have bums.

We have a growing number of people in America who vote for a living rather than work for a living. That is the problem. Government dependency is becoming the drug of choice and us working people are paying for their addiction.

We have an updated story on this: Sarasota Homeless, Vagrant Crackdown Leads to 55 Arrests http://patch.com/A-x4qW

Dear Mayor Atwell, Who's fault is that?